Southern HospitalityPosted by Rick on June 29th, 2003
A question for all. I’d especially like Southerners input on this one: Is Southern hospitality insincere? I had never really heard that one until I moved up here, but I’ve heard it a lot since I’ve moved up here. I’ve never once had the impression that Southern hospitality is insincere. There may be some of those people in the South, but I’ve never gotten the impression that it’s insincere. I mean, after all, part of hospitality is being nice to people that hard to get along with.
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June 29th, 2003 at 7:16 pm
Southern hospitality is not insincere. It’s very warm and comfortable…
June 29th, 2003 at 7:35 pm
insincere? So you’re saying that people in the North have been into Southern people’s homes and found their hosts to be insincere? Sorry, I’m just having trouble following that… How could anyone ever be insincere after having invited someone into their home? If we invite guests, we do it out of genuine interest in that particular person or family, even if we don’t necessarily share a lot of common interests with them. No matter what the background of the visitor, their comfort is my priority….
June 29th, 2003 at 8:23 pm
Once again, leave it to Amber and Kristen to put things so well.
It goes without saying that there are bad apples in every cultural barrel, everyone’s a sinner. It think as a broad brush stroke though….that generalisation entirely misses the canvas.
June 29th, 2003 at 11:18 pm
It depends on the attitude of whoever’s being hospitable. I’ve only seen it once or twice in my lifetime though, and it’s REAL obvious when it is insincere.
June 30th, 2003 at 5:59 am
I think I could come across as giving insincere hospitality, because I don’t seem to socialize well; so if I’m playing the role of host, I think I stumble through my performance. But overall, I think our Southern culture is generally hospitable and genuinely so. That’s one of the influences of the Lord’s people in their society. Now, I wish we could lead the nation in leaving color discrimination behind us. (I write that, even though the most racist influence in my life presently is a man from Pittsburgh.)
June 30th, 2003 at 6:29 am
So those from the Lilith-like Northwest are saying that those hospitable Southerners that regularly invite you over are “insincere”? Does that make the inhospitable Northwesterners sincere in their coldness?
June 30th, 2003 at 6:34 am
Our best friends are from Sweden, and they wondered the same thing. I think what they meant by it, though, wasn’t being invited into someone’s home, but just little things like, being asked “How are you doing?” when they saw someone on the street. The husband would always respond with a long story about how he was doing, and then soon realize that the person was just being polite, but did not really mean “how are you doing,” just “hello.”
Still, I think Southern hospitality is sincere on the whole.
June 30th, 2003 at 8:11 am
If you say to someone in Brooklyn, “How are you?”, a common response is “Don’t Ask”. Which really means, “I’ve been waiting all day for someone to ask me so I can Kvetch about my life.” Be prepared for a short novel at least.
In many regions of the country (perhaps the South), giving such a candid response to “How are you” would be impertinant and impolite. The “How are you” phrase is part of a social ritual, not a real question looking for a “sincere” answer.
June 30th, 2003 at 9:31 am
That’s what I told my friends, too. I just assumed every culture had some kind of variance to the “how are you” question. It’s really just more of a salutation than a sincere question. Yet, for whatever reason, my friend took this as a sincere question on most occasions, until he finally figured it out.
June 30th, 2003 at 11:58 am
I’m in the South, though not the Deep South, and I have received many, many general invitations to someone’s house, followed by no specific invitation.
In other words, many people have said to me, “We’ll have to have you over some time!”, and then never actually have me over.
It could be that they are sincere in the initial invitation, and then just forget to actually follow through with it. Or maybe they’re just busy. But even if that’s the case, it doesn’t seem very hospitable, does it?
I don’t think it is the case, though. I think it’s become a way of greeting someone, or welcoming them. Just a remnant of Southern culture that has, in large part, faded away.
Of course, I have also been received into the homes of friends very, very warmly, and lovingly. Then again, several of those families are from the northwest.
June 30th, 2003 at 1:05 pm
In alot of Southern homes, all you need is the “general invitation”....you don’t have to be “formally invited” to go to someone’s house….they give the general invite, and it usually means “come on over anytime”. That’s the way I grew up…..Sundays especially were(and still are) open house days…...stop by, stay a few hours, play volleyball in the summmer, or get into very interesting theological discussions, etc. I do wish more people would get back to that idea…..but anyway…..maybe it’s that inbred Southern hospitality:)
June 30th, 2003 at 1:49 pm
That’s very true Christy. People actually do expect you to stop by at anytime. I was never really comfortable doing that, even after I figured out that that was what was expected. However, that’s often what someone down there means when they say they’d like to have you over.
June 30th, 2003 at 2:04 pm
We had some engineers from India working at our facility for several years and they said that it was considered an insult in India to call before you visited someone. By calling first, you were in effect saying that the other party was inhospitable and that you did not feel free to just drop in. The greatest compliment you could give was to visit unannounced, and do so frequently. In addition, every one of these Hindu fellows were congenial, courteous, civil, very well mannered, yet warm and friendly. It was all rather convicting.
June 30th, 2003 at 2:12 pm
I agree with the aforesaid person who said that when Southern hospitality is insincere it’s obvious. When Southerners say, “Y’all come back now,” they mean it. Besides would there be quite as much food or Sweetea shoved at you if someone was being insincere? I always gain ten pounds when we go South for Xmas. I love Southern hospitality and strive to exude it even in the cold Northwest.
June 30th, 2003 at 5:19 pm
I think you have to look deeper than just the hospitality aspect of southern culture to see the true sincerity there. I still believe most in my generation (45 years old) were taught to respect our elders, show hospitality to others, and give people the benefit fo the doubt in most situations.
Many times we will go out of our way to find (think of) something nice/good/encouraging to say to someone. It’s just the way things are done here.
We also use “sir” and “mam” a lot more here. I remember when, as a child, I used to visit my grandfather in west Tennessee. To everyone in town he was known as Mr. Travis. I sometimes still find myself using “Mr.” and a person’s first name. It’s ust respectful.
June 30th, 2003 at 7:21 pm
Not having been brought up in the “deep south” but in kentucky… I must agree that everybody I knew that gave the general invite to come over meant it. And most of us did. Now that I live in the midwest I tell people to stop by some time. NOBODY has ever taken me up on it. It is kind of depressing. So now I have to go out of my way to invite specific people over one at a time and set up dates and times. It’s so much easier when people just show up…
July 1st, 2003 at 6:12 am
The people that I mentioned I didn’t even know, or had only met them once or twice before. I don’t know where the people even live to just show up at their house.
From my eyeballs, it seems like it’s really just the Christians that are truly hospitable, not necessarily Southerners. Like I said, there are several families in the area that are transplanted from the Northwest, and we’ll stop by their houses unannounced, and be invited in and often stay for dinner. And we do the same when we can (the dinner part, I mean).
Maybe I’m just confused. Are ya’ll talking about people that you already know, your friends? Or are you talking about people you’re just introduced to or randomly become aquainted with?
July 1st, 2003 at 6:19 am
Oh, and I think people often don’t just pop over, at least in large part, because of our flashflashflash way of life.
In the South things generally seem to be a bit more relaxed, at least more than I’ve experienced in other parts of the country (I’ve never been in the Northwest, however, so can’t compare it to up there…). So maybe the slower pace down here makes it easier for people to not have to schedule in every jot and tittle that they do.
Of course, in our congregation, we pretty much have to schedule a time if we expect to spend time with people we haven’t seen in a while. Everyone’s always inviting someone over for Sunday lunch or dinner on another night of the week. We wanted to spend some time with one family, and they were booked for two weeks between their own family things, having people to their house and going to other folks house.
So maybe that’s the Southern Hospitality you’re talking about. I’d say it’s just Christian hospitality, though.
July 1st, 2003 at 9:09 am
You know Southerners that are non-Christians? Wow!
July 1st, 2003 at 11:27 am
Well, yeah, actually I do know a couple.
But I know more that are Christians, but just aren’t practicing Christian hopsitality.
They’re acting like Northwesterners, I gather…
July 1st, 2003 at 11:33 am
Rick, your comment reminded me of something a fellow from Portland, Oregon (a very nice, and hospitable chap, btw) said when he moved here to Kentucky. He had been here about 6 months when he asked, Who do you witness to around here? Everyone around here is a Christian!. I would say about 75% of the people that I know are members of and regularly attend church. (90% are Baptist or Church of Christ) I was surprised when I moved here almost 20 years ago that there were bible studies and prayer meetings held during lunch at work. The bulletin board at work is always full of revival meetings/church plays/Christian singing groups types of announcements. Two months ago when some corporate executives came to our plant to announce that it was closing, a plant worker jumps up and asks if he can lead us in prayer! Very few locally owned businesses are open on Sunday, though that is now beginning to change. You will not find any Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim meeting places.I have never seen a Darwinized fish symbol on the rear of a vehicle. For several months last year, all of the SBC member lawns were peppered with 10 commandments signs. I have heard similar observations from speaking to others that live in smaller cities in the South. Drive across the Ohio into Illinois and it is a completely different culture.
July 1st, 2003 at 1:21 pm
Richard: I think “Southern hospitality” is influenced by Christianity, but I don’t think that Christians alone are capable of showing it. God extends His grace to nonbelievers, as well, and I think the Christian background of the Southern culture has had a profound influence on the way nonbelievers in the South act an influence that you can’t find (for the most part) in the northwest.
July 1st, 2003 at 3:54 pm
I’m sure there are nonChristians out there that are kind people, and freely invite folks into their houses… I just haven’t run across any around here.
Maybe I just need to interact more with nonChristians, though, to find some. That’s obviously a possibility.
But it seems to me that there is a remnant of Southern hospitality, that I’ve experienced in people saying “We need to get together some time!” or “We’ll have you over”, but then never taking the initiative to do such a thing. Southern culture was obviously influenced by Christianity to a very large degree, and that I think made people more hospitable. I’d argue over the last 20 years or so, though, it’s become more and more externalized… like an empty shell.
But maybe It’s only that way in Lynchburg, VA. Well… and Roanoke. Not the smallest cities on the map, but not the biggest either.
July 1st, 2003 at 5:05 pm
Insincere? Never
There is nothing Southerners like better than to drink something cold, eat something very sweet or very salty, and catch up with people.
I think that the reason Southern writers do such great character work is that Southerners tend to be students of character. The true southerners I am most exposed to say “he is known for X” for every person they discuss.
My understanding of the formula is:
A— “We’ll have to have ya’ll over some time.”
B— “We’re going (or fixing, as the case may be) to be in your neck of the woods; do you mind if we stop by?”
B comes, bringing food, plant, or cut flowers.
B, having visited A, now is obligated to have A to B’s house. Then, they invite back and forth. As the parties get closer, they become more spontaneous.
In the initial event, A may follow “We’ll have to have ya’ll over” with “maybe for Sunday dinner”, and the women call and arrange it, and in steps three and four, the parties are reversed.
One never goes to another’s house emptyhanded.
My momma is a Yankee, so I wasn’t taught this exactly as a kid, but this is my understanding of the system.
July 1st, 2003 at 5:56 pm
I lived in N.C. for awhile and it seemed insincere to me. It was like all sweetness up front but the willingness to just carve you up behind your back. That was many years ago so my memories are dim but it seemed real phony to me.
July 1st, 2003 at 6:23 pm
Joel- you must have lived in Raleigh
Richard- Your “flashflashflash” comment is right on. We’re just too darn busy these days. I cannot wait to get back to good ol SW VA where time moves much more slowly….
I can’t believe there are 25 (now 26) comments and no mention of Wilkins’ new book…
July 1st, 2003 at 10:12 pm
Amber, why are you knocking Raleigh? Charlotte is much worse ;o)
July 1st, 2003 at 10:50 pm
I don’t think southern hospitality really exists for strangers except in a few intentional pockets – like the artificially induced hospitality of a church that majors on that. Southern hospitality comes out when you already have a southern friend and they tend to you well when you are a visitor in their home.
Also, just compare the food at a Midwest potluck supper and a Southern potluck supper and you see differences immediately.
Also, Southern Hospitality, when it does exist for strangers, is generally racist or classist. You show politeness within your caste, so to speak.
I grew up in South Mississippi and I can’t remember more than maybe two times that we ate dinner with another family that invited my parents and me over for dinner unless it was a church function. Ever. And that was over the sixteen year time period from birth through going off to boarding school…
July 2nd, 2003 at 10:12 am
I concede, Kristen. I keep forgetting that Charlotte is in NC, and that it’s not a self-contained city-state :p
July 2nd, 2003 at 1:09 pm
Mostly good comments, IMO.
I would agree that Southern friendliness (distinct from hospitality) can seem insincere, for the reasons cited above. I actually make a conscious effort to combat those tendencies. For instance, I try not to ask how someone is doing unless I’m actually willing to listen if they want to tell me. Getting people anywhere to believe that you are sincerely willing to listen is a challenge.
I also agree about the comments that really apply to hospitality. I beg people not to call me. I hate the telephone and would rip it out if Jeni would let me. If you want to talk to me, come on over. I’ll make you some tea and we can sit down and really pay attention to each other instead of half-listening on the phone while we try to do something else. That’s how it was where I grew up – you could just drop in on folks any old time. One annoying thing about the south is that its the visitors responsibility to know when he’s worn out his welcome. If you are emotionally inept, it’s pretty hard to pick up on the clues.
Re: Barlow’s post. You sure can tell the difference between a midwest potluck and a southern one. The southern one is the one with the good food. I think the classism and such is much more a Mississippi thing. It’s not anything I’ve experienced in the carolinas, tennessee, or Maryland (yeah, it’s a border state).
Cary, NC isn’t all that friendly – but I suspect that has a lot to do with the fact that the population is mostly Yankees. Overall, I would say that hospitality is vanishing in the south. Everyone is too consumed with the pale existence that passes for their lives (“No honey, we can’t have company on Thurs. ER is on”).
July 2nd, 2003 at 1:44 pm
I lived in Louisiana for the first 22 years of my life. Moving to the Northwest was a huge culture shock. Although in a Christian community, the hospitality and general friendliness is much less apparent here. Back home, I was greeted by Christians and non-Christians alike. I can probably count on one hand the supper invitations I’d had from families in our Idaho church. Gimme that Southern hospitality anyday!
July 2nd, 2003 at 6:35 pm
Jon, I gotta agree with Rob. The racist/classist attitude you see in Southern hospitality must be a Mississippi thing. My family has gone beyond our church in inviting singles, couples, and families over. It’s not just my family, either. My whole life has been spent in fellowship with people other than those from my own congregation. It goes beyond simply accepting hospitality as a responsibility down here it’s a joyful privilege that people just love to excercise. The idea that racism is rampant in the South is really innacurate and often held by people whose relationships with blacks (if they know any personally) are based on the same foundation of difference that they claim they are trying to get rid of.
July 2nd, 2003 at 7:41 pm
Often those who claim that Southern hospitality is not genuine are the same people that say that repetitive, simple ceremonies like a handshake and a “how are you doing?” are superficial, insincere rituals. My wife and I lived in the South for about the first 13 years of our marriage. SH is mostly sincere. Hospitality rituals tend to transform people into genuinely hospitable communities.
July 3rd, 2003 at 6:48 am
Sutton – I’m not quite sure how to interpret your last sentence; it’s like you’re saying that any caucasian who alleges to have found racism against blacks in Mississippi is probably just projecting his/her own biases and has no crediblity unless he has a lot of black friends.
I don’t want to say too much because I don’t want to paint anyone with a brushstroke, and especially my family members, but when I visit and I hear stories told about crimes, advice given about where to live, advice given about this or that, black people are explicitly identified so that nods can be exchanged concerning the expectations people should have about them versus us.
Part of this could be the fact that more black people live in Mississippi than in most states, and because there is cyclical poverty and all of its attendant problems among many black Mississippians. But it has led white people there, wrongly or rightly, to a largely us/them mindset.
Frankly, I have found better hospitality among near-unitarian-southern-methodists and southern baptists than among PCA folks in the south.
Perhaps I’m just mad after my last visit…
July 3rd, 2003 at 11:57 am
I apologigize if it sounded like I was refering to you personally with that comment. I said it out of a general frustration for hearing my area labeled as racist simply because of where it is. When you are told by the national media 24/7 that you are racist because you live in the South it gets old fast. I’m saying it’s those people who are truly racist, in exactly the same manner which they claim to hate so much. They have a stereotype of blacks being a people unrespected and poor, and needy of help from whites to change that. There’s nothing these guys hate more than Godly, well-respected black people. And the South is full of them.
July 3rd, 2003 at 10:38 pm
I really hate Southern Hospetalety. I hate Tom Ridge too.
July 3rd, 2003 at 10:39 pm
No, I’m not the Jon Stutten guy who commented before I did. that’s Somebody else.
July 4th, 2003 at 7:00 pm
It was actually Wilmington, and racism was real there, like it is in the north too.
July 6th, 2003 at 12:55 pm
Not to back things up, but whatwould it mean for hospitalit to be “sincere”?
July 6th, 2003 at 12:55 pm
Not to back things up, but whatwould it mean for hospitality to be “sincere”?
July 7th, 2003 at 7:48 am
Done from the heart as opposed to a social routine that you don’t really mean.
July 8th, 2003 at 11:03 am
When I was young and in the South I thought of Southern hospitality as baffling, nice, and quaint.
July 8th, 2003 at 7:52 pm
I grew up in Virginia and lived 6 years in North Carolina as well. When I was growing up Southern Hospitality was real. If you said “How are you?” to anyone-stranger or friend- you weren’t being “polite”, you expected a bit of conversation. Neighbors talked to each other. About everything. When someone said “Stop by sometime” they meant it. It was quite a bit easier to make friends there, even being a strong introvert, as I was, than it is here in California, where I’m now located (stuck). I said “hi” to my neighbor when we first moved into our apartment here and he looked at me a bit bug-eyed, rushed down the stairs, and said something unrepeatable as he hit the bottom step. Later he and his roommate used to give me sly looks and grins…I think they thought I was hitting on them. LOL. Anyway, as with all cultures, there are fakes and those who just go through the motions. And times have changed, as many here have mentioned. The pace is much faster (although still slower down there than elsewhere in the country), and it tends to make what was once a true hospitality into a shadow of what it once was-just a way to get through the day and seem nice, rather than a way to meet and make new friends, or even have a good spontaneous conversation with a stranger. I think this upsets my dad. He loves to strike up conversations with anyone he crosses paths with (well, most of the time). Used to be that people would stop and chat no matter. Now a lot of people, especially younger people, just shove conversation aside-there’s too much to do. People used to go out of their way to help you. And we said Ma’am and Sir, and put “Miss” in front of a grown lady’s first name and “Mr.” in front of a grown man’s first name (one thing I’ve passed on to my kids). It was a form of respect. It’s not that true Southern Hospitality is dead, or insincere. It just seems to be fading out with the ever-increasing pace and relativism of our society.
March 12th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Are you allowed to kiss a nun?
Yes. But don’t get into the habbit.
April 11th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I would have to say if that were my situation I would also agree, but it is not my current situation. The last post leading up to this one would be the same answer in my humble opinion. Great site and keep the nice content coming