From Wine to GallPosted by Rick on September 24th, 2003
For those of you that are unfamiliar with what has been happening in my own life, in regard to my roommate, Tim Eaton, you can hear it from him here.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you were never one of us. You did more than taste. You imbibed, and it is turning to bitter gall. It’s hard for me to believe you’re doing this. It’s hard for me to believe this is real life. But it’s real, and it’s eternal.
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September 24th, 2003 at 5:43 pm
I can’t believe it’s happening either. Tim, come back to God.
September 24th, 2003 at 7:29 pm
Well, the comments are closed on the other site, so I’m sure you don’t want to hear it, but nonetheless, if you’re reading this, I’m praying for you Tim.
And since I’m sure you guys are hurting too, I’m praying for you too, Rick and Rachel.
September 24th, 2003 at 8:21 pm
I’m still new enough at this blogging stuff, that I don’t really know Tim. But, I did send him an e-mail. I don’t really expect a reply. Things like this make me hurt.
September 25th, 2003 at 12:06 am
this is like having a death in the family. tim, if you are reading this, come back to the faith. we love you and will never, ever stop praying for you. r&r, my prayers are with you and with tim e’s family.
September 25th, 2003 at 1:11 am
Hello. I know that most of you don’t know who I am. But I am Tim’s ex-girlfriend Sarah. As Rick and Rachael and some others know I am not a member of the Body of Christ because I was not baptized. I guess I am writing because I hope Tim remembers that something he gave to me was inspiration. Inspiration to live for Christ, and I have grown very much in my own spiritual journey’s from his example. I am sorry that he has gone where he is now. I have realized that who I am and where I want to go has everything to do with growing in my relationship with God. I am sorry that he has fallen, but I think the support of his friends, and you all, should give him faith that even this can be repented and forgiven, and that he has no other choice than to go back to God.
September 25th, 2003 at 4:46 am
But Rick, wasn’t Tim baptized? If so, Praise the LORD! We have nohting to worry about
September 25th, 2003 at 8:02 am
Andrew, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Trying studying a bit more. Even the Lutherans, who are louder than Presbyterians when it comes to Baptismal Regeneration, admit that an Apostate declares himself outside the covenant of God. Such gifts of grace such as baptism and communion will only bring condemnation on an apostate.
Again, trying studying a bit more before you ridicule people who are mourning the loss of a brother. Show some taste.
September 25th, 2003 at 8:30 am
Yeah, that’s pretty ignorant Andrew. Baptism isn’t a free ticket to the Resurrection. Baptism has responsibilities, and to whom much is given, much is required. Baptism puts you in the family of God. It makes you a child of God. Tim is a prime example of this issue. He has a human family. But he’s turning his back on them. In the email he sent to his father and our pastor, he said he knew he this would probably mean his family would not have anything to do with him. It’s the same way with God and the church. He has a Father. He has a family (the church). And he’s turning his back on us. Baptism only condemns him, for in baptism Tim has been claimed by God. God put Tim into His family by baptism. And Tim is making himself an orphan. If Tim continues in running from God, Tim will receive a greater condemnation because God was his Father, and the church was his family. He had all the rights and benefits of being a child of God! He has everything, and he’s counting it as nothing.
September 25th, 2003 at 9:23 am
Oh, so you mean we can lose our salvation? Either baptism regenerates us or it doesn’t. Which is it?
September 25th, 2003 at 10:10 am
In the sense that we use the word “regeneration” as a systematic term, it doesn’t regenerate us.
However, the word regeneration, in Scripture, is referring to The Regeneration…the New Creation. Baptism places us in the New Creation, and it gives us a new life. Just as a Russian baby adopted by an American family gets a new family, a new father, and a new life, so does a baptized child get a new Father, new family (the Church), and a new life.
September 25th, 2003 at 12:33 pm
Andrew, you might want to consider that this isn’t really the best time to address perceived theological inconsistencies. It’s rather a cold-hearted thing to do…
September 25th, 2003 at 1:19 pm
Heartbreaking news. :^(
September 25th, 2003 at 9:59 pm
Yes, you can lose your salvation. God’s grace is uniquely present in baptism, but baptism is not salvation itself, and further, salvation moves us by God’s grace in our daily living (faith demonstrated or accompanied by works) toward holiness and perfection such that while justification is in a moment, the process of sanctification and beyond is in a lifetime, such that we are both saved and being saved. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward transformation that comes from accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. My own denomination teaches that baptism is required to be initiated into the church (both Christ’s church universal), and thus church membership, but that it is not absolutely required in order to be saved. One can, indeed fall from grace. I don’t want to be disrespectful, but the theology that teaches “once saved, always saved” is false. That doesn’t mean, however, that Christians need be unsure of their salvation. Losing one’s salvation comes from a deliberate act to reject Christ, such as by conscious choice of the will expressed in word or in deed in the continued living of a sinful, unrepentant life. Such rejection can be reversed, of course. I realize that many see baptism as an act of salvation per se, but I see it as symbolic of the act of salvation. One’s sins are washed by Christ, not literally by the water. The water is a visible sign of the cleaning of salvation. The real cleaning water is the blood of Christ. Someone who repents and accepts Christ but dies before there is a chance for baptism has his/her place in the kingdom secured nonetheless.
I agree with Pieter, though, that the focus shouldn’t be on theological differences, perhaps. For those of you who are grieving, I grieve with you. Hope, however, outlasts grief.
September 26th, 2003 at 5:53 am
If we can lose our salvation, then we have a problem. When Jesus Christ said that no one can snath those who are His out of the Father’s hand, what did He really mean? Also, when Paul said that nothing could separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus, what did he mean? If we can lose our salvation, then these two either did not know what they were talking about, or they were liars.
Personally, I have a problem with that.
September 26th, 2003 at 6:10 am
I think that it is very sad that some see this as a time to score theological points. Perhaps there is nothing that can cause a Christian more grief than seeing someone fall away from Christ. The grief is all the more real because we know that he has fallen away from something real. I am praying with you all at this time. It is a source of unceasing comfort to me that we worship a gracious God. He drew me back from the brink of the pit after I had turned my back on Him and He is well able to do it for others.
September 26th, 2003 at 7:56 am
Excellent point, Al. That’s my point exactly. Tim had said that some had told him he never was a Christian, and his comment was that he’s not one now. I’m not sure that the case. It is possible for one to “stray” far afield, and yet be brought back by our gracious God. I pray that this is the case with Tim.
September 26th, 2003 at 8:32 am
I will never forget the phone I received nearly ten years ago from a Christian brother of mine telling me with joy that his son had returned to Church for the first time in more than four years. I had shared in his grief when his son first renounced the faith and left home in anger(he was 18 or so). I remember hugging and comforting him and his wife after the service at which his son was excommunicated. Our family had prayed for his son’s restoration for more than four years from the time when he first turned away from the faith. And I am sorry to say that I stopped praying for him. (I had started to pray for other needs.) And yet God was gracious.
Today this man’s son his thriving member of a reformed church. His wife, who he married when he was away from the church, also became a Christian a year or so after his restoration. They are now the parents of several covenant children.
So take heart. And do not cease to pray for Tim.
September 26th, 2003 at 8:45 am
I read this post yesterday and have not been able to get it out of my mind. I think of all the friends that tasted and then turned away.
I am also thinking of how church leadership can sometimes push people away from grace. I have no idea of what the situation is in this case. I am in no way speaking against Tim’s pastor and father.
The enemy seeks to steal and destroy. He uses deception to twist the words of others and turn us against one another. Seek truth brother, Jesus is truth.
September 26th, 2003 at 11:24 am
We are grieving for Tim. I think of the many times he spent at our home, enjoying a common meal with our family. We wanted him to feel that we were his family while he was so far from home. We miss him and care deeply about him. Our family is praying for him and my comfort is found in the parable of the prodigal son. I am praying that for him. My words for Tim are, “Come on home…All can be forgiven…return to your Father’s house”
September 26th, 2003 at 1:27 pm
I talked with Tim today, and his heart seems to be somewhat softening to things of the Lord. Please, please, continue to pray for him. Pray harder.
September 26th, 2003 at 4:50 pm
I’m continuing to pray for Tim, and am planning to mention him tomorrow to my church, so that they can lift up prayers for him. I’ve only met him once, but I’ve been reading his blog for a little while now, and have seen him searching for something. I hope and pray that he will realize that it is Christ he is searching for, and none other. Tim, if you are reading this, know that the minute I read your post, I started praying for you, because I can’t imagine being outside of God’s covenant and not having the comfort of eternal life with Him. Know that God will not let you go, wherever you may hide!
The peace of Christ be with you all!
September 26th, 2003 at 5:05 pm
Have prayed, will continue to pray. Have been there, 13 years ago. It was a dark place. No joy. Glad to be back. Pray Tim will see…
September 26th, 2003 at 7:17 pm
I’ve been reading both this blog and Tim’s blog for a while (I stumbled upon them about February), and when I read his (Tim’s) last post, I was totally shocked. I will be praying with all of you, even though I don’t know you.
September 26th, 2003 at 7:31 pm
Tragic.
September 27th, 2003 at 12:06 am
Praying…with faith that He who began a good work in Tim will be faithful to complete it,
September 29th, 2003 at 10:00 am
Praying that God will open Tim’s eyes to the glory of His forgiveness and grace. My heart goes out to you, Rick and Rachel, and to Tim’s family and friends. This is tragedy, indeed.
October 1st, 2003 at 9:17 pm
Praying . . . even though I only know him from his blog. God bless you all and comfort you.
October 13th, 2003 at 12:40 pm
Yeah, I know that everything I say is pretty much bullcrap, but…
I really don’t see the value in having a service to excommunicate someone who professes unbelief. It’s like having a trial to convict someone who committed suicide of self-murder.
Anyway…uh, I don’t really know where Scripture enjoins us to talk about those who fall away as having never really believed. I suppose idolatrous Israel was never really rescued from Egypt?